Words of Radiance Reread: Chapter 51

My interpretation of the chapter title, Heirs, is that Adolin is both Dalinar and the Blackthorn heir. The Kholins generals respect Adolin because he is a nice capable kid and their Highprince’s heir, but in this scene, he stepped up in a confrontation we learned has not happened very often. As a result, the room grows silent. Adolin wonders if Dalinar realizes the presence he had and the brute force by which he makes people move. We could send back the question and ask: “Does Adolin realize he has the same strength in him?”.

So yes, he is the rightful heir to the dreaded Blackthorn. He possess the same energy, the same presence, the same aura, but he does not know how to use it, yet. The difference? Young Dalinar was driven by anger and jealousy; young Adolin is driven by love and deep care for his family, but both man have the same energy signature. I had wonder how this would play in the future and if Adolin would someday earn himself a worthy nickname.

For the rest, Sureblood. Sad. Too sad. I hope Adolin will find himself another Rhysadium. The departure felt of for me too. I expected the meeting to go wrong, but it didn’t. It did, in a way, but I expected a physical confrontation. It did not happen. I also took note Adolin has to lower his voice tone to try to sound like his father. That was strange to me: Dalinar has a much graver voice than his son. It was unexpected.

I shall also take note of Adolin’s spine which crawls over the thought of being in the Plains at the end of the countdown. Another note of his growing unease and a foreteller of his meltdown at the end? Already, he is not liking it and by the end of the book, he is clearly unsettled.

Regrets? We had the Jasnah’s bath scene, the Shallan’s bath scene, why didn’t we get the Adolin one? The chapter starts after he is done…. Disappointement. Are we forever doom to solely read about female bathing scenes? To which makes me wonder how many hours they sleep at night… Coming home late, overseeing the cleaning of the room, sleep, get up early enough to take a long bath… I have to wonder if Adolin is actually getting enough sleep here: he can’t rely on stormlight to keep himself going.

On the very, very side note, I heard Brandon was going to do a reading at Spokane. I am keen to hear all about it.

@@.-@: It is very interesting to compare Adolin to Dalinar: they are both so similar in some ways and yet so different in others…

@5: I doubt a Rhysadium is required to form a Nahel bond, but I yearn for him to bond another one.

@6: I adore Adolin when he is assuming his role as future Highprince: it makes the strategic tactical cold headed Adolin shine, the one who strangely is in his element and cannot be bested.

I have always been somewhat amused to read so many people state Kaladin would soon assume the role of either a Highprince and/or a prominent war leader simply by virtue of him being a Windrunner whose second attribute happens to be leadership. Leadership can be applied in so many different ways and Kaladin’s strength seem to lie with being a motivator and an inspiration, but he has not demonstrated strong tactical skills for large scale battles or potential as a politician.

And yes, I do want to see Adolin finding his voice, his path and his strength which is so reminiscent of the Blackthorn yet so different.

Dalinar’s flashback 30 years ago???? That’s about the time where he bonded Oathbringer… OMG and you can’t tell us a thing??? This is so terrible for those who are cursed to never attend those conventions :-(

I feel so depressed. 

You are all so lucky. Have a good time there. I hope some will ask character related questions… we so seldom get any.

As for the guy who yelled after the poor woman, had I been there, needless to say the whole room would have heard what I thought of his behavior. Cheers to Peter and Brandon.

@11 and 16: I do not think the men have much formal education. However, we know Adolin had a tutor as a child, ardent Kadash, who taught him the history of Roshar among other things… Adolin claimed he never had a mind for history not directly relating to battles. It does appear to me he was taught Vorinism and history according to the religion with an emphasis on combat, but little eager Adolin probably thought most of it was boring. Though, I try to envision how such lessons must have been conducted: ardent Kadash speaking and young Adolin trying to remember some of it… Oral teaching is one of the worst way to teach: most people need reading to recall anything. I personally am nearly unable to learn anything via hearing only, so it is not really surprising Adolin does not recall much.

Which makes me think the Alethi males are probably very good at remembering things they are told….

Adolin also knows his numbers and understand percentages (fractions), which implies a grade 4-6 level of mathematical abilities, probably the highest you can go without being able to write/read.
 
For the rest, it seems to me as most of their teaching is informal… Dalinar states how Adolin is much more prepare then he had been to assume the role of Highprince and how he worked hard to make sure he would be. In other words, Dalinar has been informally teaching his son for years. It seems to me most of Adolin knowledge in terms of strategy, card reading, military tactics must come from Dalinar. He is the one who oversaw his son’s tutoring in the matter of soldering.

That being said, I recall it mentioned, in WoK, how young women and men could come to the ardentia for lessons… I think it is Adolin who reflects on that when he visits ardent Kadash. I bet Renarin was one of those who attend regularly, but not Adolin.

In other words, they seem to have teaching of sorts, but it does not seem well established. It is clear Adolin had receive education, but not a very detailled or throughout one. Most of what he knows, I’d wager, he accumulated through his personal experiences. He was probably taught how to read glyphs as well, so his inability in the matter is still puzzling… though to refer to my earliest comment, how are you supposed to learn glyphs if you can’t trace them? And how was he taugh exactly? With ardent Kadash holding a card from up front and telling him about it? Again, the most inefficient way of teaching… Adolin spends all his leisure time with his nose into his fashion magazines which are filled with glyphs: it is strange if he can’t read any of it.

Come to think of it, the one time he couldn’t read it, how far was he standing from Navani and how small were those glyphs? He couldn’t tell if there were two… I am unsure there was not something else at the work here other than a young uninterested in glyphs prince. It does not make sense he would have learned none of it, unless his teaching had been very poor. Especially since Adolin seeems rather receptive to teaching in other occasions. My thoughts are he struggled with them for reasons and ended up giving up learning while claiming it was because he had no interest…

@17: Actually no, the 17th Shard people are being very respectful of Brandon’s wishes for the chapter to not be disclosed until the end of the tour. After that, it will certainly go online with a video and a transcript. Until then, if someone is ever as bold as to post it nonetheless, I believe the admins would promtly remove it. The one time I saw a preview chapter leaked there, it was a more ambiguous situation… it had not been clear the chapter had to remain secret.

Strangely enough, no words (WoB) from the Spokane convention has gone into the 17th Shard yet. I believe not many of them were attempting.

@22: I would sincerely be at lost to figure out a “good old time” where the teachers did not use writing/reading as a reinforcement tool to enforce their teachings (that and the good old strap). I mean, reading/writing has been the basis of education since Antiquity: nobles and merchants were taught to read and write. The peasants and the workers, no: their schooling was either non-existent of that of an apprentice: very different things. 

That being said, there once were non writing communities were knowledge was passed down through oral tradition, but they did not have extensive higher learning… Europeans, Arabs all had writing to support their teachings since… many, many, many centuries. Only a minority were taught, but their schooling was not solely oral. 

School did not become mainstream until… gee, I would be at lost to figure out when but let’s say 19th century. Even then, teaching was done on a blackboard with students being required to write things down… Strictly oral teaching did not exist, not in the form the Alethi seem to be pursuing with their boys. That being said, providing such a system, the only ones who would do well would be the minority of auditory children and some of the kinesthesic, both having interested in studies. Visual children never stood a chance.

I agree Shallan probably is a visual learner, but being a woman, she had the luxury of being able to read. She is mostly self-taught which is common with visual learners. Since they do not need someone to tell them the lesson and they prefer to read it, many will simply take the text book home and forget about the class. Had Shallan been put through the same learning experience as Adolin, it’s probable she would have done poorly.

Yes sure, he carries a picture book… the only kind of book available to men, but this is how reading starts… Well, with children that is… You start by showing them picture book, bringing them to find an interest into the idea of looking into a book. At first, you nearly have to hold the page still long enough for you to read the single word on it in order to prevent the baby from throwing it away… but eventually they stop doing it and they start to listen… So Adolin carrying a picture book does indicate an interest in the idea of opening a book and get information from it. In his case, it is pleasure: he likes fashion, he reads (or look) about fashion in a book. 

I personally Adolin would come out as much more smarter had he been allowed to learn to read… which makes me think it would be a fun thing to ask Brandon…

Barring sports and arts (too easy), which modern day traditional academic subject would Kaladin, Adolin, Shallan, Renarin and Dalinar excel at? Be terrible at?

Another fun one: Were they allowed to read, what kind of book would Kaladin, Adolin, Renarin and Dalinar prefer? Who reads fantasy?

Would be fun to know the kind of light funny questions which can surprisingly tell us much.

@23: Of course he is interested in fashion, but my point was his instincts is to look it up into a book, for fun. It does not mean much, but I simply pointed out he was the only male character we see doing it. “Learned” Renarin is never seen looking into on of the men’s book… 

Yeah, Adolin was a hopeless fop back in his teenage years… I kinda want to read about it… as it seems one of the reasons everyone so readily dismiss him is tightly linked to why many readers still call him a “shallow dumb jerk”. He appears stupid, he plays at being stupid and he looks the part with his obsession on clothes, but he does have much more going on.

@26: I guess the discussion pertaining reading glyphs relates to why Adolin did not think it interesting enough to disengage in his learning? As a prince, it is obvious he was taught. Navani assumes he should have known those glyphs, but he doesn’t. Worst, he can’t tell if there is one or two glyphs on the tiny piece of paper she is holding.

For someone who spends his leisure time nose stick into his fashion magazines, not being able to read glyphs is…. strange. I mean, surely he wondered what was written in those… which leads me to ask how was he taught?

The questions are thus: Did Adolin refuse to learn glyph by pure disinterest on his part or was it something else? In order words, did he actually try to learn them, but dropped out upon being bad at it? Did he give up because he felt he was not smart enough for glyphs and thus claimed he was not interested to hide his difficulties?

I have not come to a valid conclusion here yet. It could be Adolin truly did not care about his own instruction, but it is strange as he does seem to care at other moments and his interest in men’s books kinda contradicts the whole thing… even if they are just about fashion… there are words/glyphs written in them… Or it could be Adolin just struggled to learn due to the way he was taught. In front of these difficulties, he just give up and pretend not to care. There are many reasons why he could have struggled, one being the strictly oral tutoring for a very visual person. As for glyph readings… has anyone ever considered Adolin may have eyesight issues? He can’t see there are two glyphs and glyphs essentially are a bunch of lines interlaced, if he had astigmatism (for instance), he would truly not be able to see them well enough, but it would not impair his everyday life. A completely undetectable issue in a world where men are not required to read small characters on a black board… 

Bottom line is, I am unsure if our favorite illiterate jock is such by pure choice or by circumstances. He seems too smart in other occasions to not have gathered how to read glyphs, especially since he was taught.

@27: I am not disputing the fact one can learn by strictly oral means, I am disputing the fact certain people would do horribly poorly at this. For instance, had I been part of an illiterate culture, I would have probably been one of the worst at remembering these plant names, but give me written support and I’d be one of the best…

My whole point is we will never know how good (or bad) of a student Adolin could have been until he is allowed to use visual support to reinforce his schooling. Strictly visual students would do poorly in a strictly oral tutoring environment and Adolin seem to have done rather poorly in his. His potential is thus not attained. Let him read and then we’ll see what he’s really got going in his brain.

@29: We do not know what is the exact content of Adolin’s fashion books. It has glyphs on the cover page, so it is quite possible there are glyphs inside. At this point in time, we do not know. I would thus refrain from speculating too hard on it. The point is Adolin does look into a book, no matter how irrelevant it is.

@31: I think you have misunderstood me… I absolutely do not judge Adolin by our modern day standards, I merely wonder if part of his apparent lack of interest in his “studies” did not derive from the strictly oral means by which teaching is performed with young men. I am also somewhat amused he turns out being the only male character we see carrying a book around… I did not mean to imply he would be interested in reading, there is no evidence of such thing, simply that he likes to go through his fashion mags. You take the IPhone example, I take little children who likes to look at pictures in books… What conclusion to be drawn on this, I do not know. It is an interesting fact.

Bottom line is I want more insight on Adolin so I could get to analyze him better. Perhaps there is nothing there, but perhaps there is. We just do not know. 

The comments on how the different glyphs can be stylized to the point of being nearly unrecognizable is interesting. I can see how many men would be discouraged from learning much more than the few basic more useful glyphs. However, I am somewhat puzzled at a few things concerning men and reading… I seem to recall a scene where a male character, I believe it was Dalinar, hold a book upside down and did not realized he was doing so. This is difficult for me to grasp as little children do figure out which way to hold a book years before they are able to read. In fact, simply by reading to a little child have them figure out very quickly the tiny characters on the page are words. They hardly require any teaching for this and the more precocious of them will figure out how to read on their own….

 From what we have seen, little boys are being told stories in the Alethi culture. Surely, they are being read by their mothers… So how is it they don’t figure out by themselves the concept of reading? Why are men completely clueless as to how reading is performed? They do see the written notices, they see the women write, they see the women read, why aren’t they figuring out by themselves? The most curious of men surely should have been able to piece it out…. It is not that hard. Reading is a very basic skill.

To me this is strange.

@36: I too felt the failed glyph reading scene was relevant to Adolin in particular. Sadly, we can’t take Navani’s opinion on the matter as she tends to be rather unjust with these things… just think of how she was bummed neither Adolin nor Dalinar wanted to hear the complex working of the lifting platform, but both focused on what they could do with it… Navani, not everyone wants to know how things work in the details… That being said, I did feel the scene was geared towards Adolin. Clearly, Brandon wanted to show us he can’t read glyph all that well. Why? Why is it relevant Adolin can’t read glyph? I am somewhat wary about Adolin claiming he never saw the use… Adolin does not readily admits many things about himself… so personal questions tend to be responded by already crafted responses. I thus do not have much faith in his response here.

@37: I understand your distress. Based on the context of the Vorin society, I would say a woman is better of staying single than a man… Women don’t need man so to speak, but men do need the women. It is a reverse dependency of the classic world. Women can work as scribes, earn decent wages and do not need to engage themselves in the art of war. 

As for a single character, I do believe Jasnah is bond to remain single. There has been people asking Brandon about her sexuality (a substantial part of the fandom has assumed she must be homosexual) to which he had answered he did not plan to broach that subject. However, he did say he would tackle the subject if it ever becomes relevant, but the way it was phrased let me think he currently had no such plans. Therefore, Jasnah should remain single.

As for Kaladin, I do not know. I do think he would be a rather poor boyfriend, so focus he is on his task. I thus do not see him engaging in any long-term relationship involving marriage and eventually children, but this does not exclude other kind of relationships… I thus do not think he would necessarily remain single for the entire duration of the Stormlight Archive. If any male character is set to remain single, I would say Renarin. He is awkward, he is autistic which renders most inter-personal relationship very difficult, by this I do not mean to imply autistic individual are doomed to remain single, simply it would be very hard for him to develop such relations. He has not shown any interest in women (or men or whatever) so far either, so I would take him as a future lonely bachelor over Kaladin.

As for Adolin, let’s just say his character has been built so much around his desire/need to find a wife, not seeing him fulfilling this would be heart-breaking. If anyone needs to marry, it is him. Besides, we need a second generation of characters. The second arc is set to happen in 10 to 15 years from now (in world time), not having any of the main characters having children would be baffling and a tad unrealistic. If anyone is to have children, it is Adolin. 

@42: But back in those days, only the few were instructed… Those who showed no promises were quickly send to other tasks. Universities had books, even in medieval times, but only a selected few had access to those. And they had parchment: there was a visual support even if sporadically used. The kids were asked to write. It is not the same as the Alethi…

My entire point is a strictly oral teaching would be difficult for strictly visual children: these would do poorly in such an environment and in a world where only the few are taught… you may not get the many that failed at learning while being taught this way. Even in the early 1900 years, children who did not show interest or talent at school were directed towards other paths and many got out of there barely literate. My own grand-father could not read. He went to school, but he dropped early and he did not learn much. I can’t say why, but my entire point is oral teaching would give poor result on many children. 

With their strictly oral teaching, the Alethi are not giving their boys all the chances they need to succeed at learning. The fact many would learn despite this does not eliminate the fact many would fail due to the rigidity of the teaching methods. Adolin may be one of those or maybe not. 

What I disagree with is the idea the strictly oral teaching Alethi has with their boys do not encourage some to disengage from their studies due to their hardship in actually learning the stuff…. Visual people don’t learn so well by ear, many don’t learn at all by ear only.

The fact Kaladin (I thought it was Dalinar) held a written text upside down is puzzling… How is it he never figured out which way it went? He has had his nose into books since forever to read those medical terms, even if he was not the one to do the reading, he still saw it..

Personality wise, one of the major difference from Kaladin and Adolin is the fact the first one not wish to follow into his father’s footsteps and spends his teenage years trying to convince him he wants to… Adolin, on the other hand, wants to follow into his father’s footsteps and finds happiness into being convinced his father was right. Kaladin finds solace into being exactly what his father disapproved of. I am unsure how different this makes them, but I have noted this.

As for Adolin and anger, it is just not anger. We tend to focus on anger, but it is all emotions Adolin struggles to control. His first response to unpredictable situations always is emotional unless he is dwelling into a known environment. He seems to value family and stability. He does not struck me as someone who deals very well with change whereas Kaladin adapts more easily. In fact, part of both books have been about Kaladin adapting itself and Adolin being refracting to changes.

Navani also believes the mother was not smart… she states she was a step from dumb… which I am unsure if true. I agree Adolin seem to have inherit his sweet side from her. I do not know what it means in terms of his education versus Kaladin and his smart witty mother… It could be Kaladin’s tendency to be self-centered sprouted from his upbringing where everything seemed to revolved around him whereas Adolin’s mother raised him to be a polite and carrying boy. I’d be good to get a few perspective on the Kholin mother…

Self-centered is not the same as selfish… I called Kaladin self-centered due to his tendency to consider all events gravitating around him are about him. It is illustrated in his inability to see the large picture, which has happened several times. His self-centered tendencies have also been made to include those he decided he should protect: his squad, his crew. The greatest example is how he uses the side-carry to protect his own crew without thinking about what it would do to the others: he was being self-centered. He thought of only himself and those he wanted to protect. He does it again with Moash, with his irrational fear Dalinar would steel his powers, with the 4 on 1 duel, with Elhokar… All of these events, Kaladin took and made them about him. Whether they were fueled by revenge or not, the end result is the same: in all occasions he forgot the large picture, he blinded himself to what was at stake in order to favor his own person, his own crew, his own world. I do call this behavior being self-centered, but it is also one Kaladin has worked on for the past two books. I do believe he is getting better at it.

Kaladin has expressed direct desire to become a soldier. I do not recall it ever having anything to do with Vorinism: it was a calling for him and whereas he accepted to follow his father’s path, he would still have preferred to be a soldier. He also mentions how, had Tien been able to be his father’s apprentice, he would have left with the army. Moreover, after being freed by Dalinar, he does not ask to go back to his studies as he is content in being a soldier. I completely disagree becoming a surgeon was Kaladin’s choice: it was his father’s choice which he came to consider his. Future events have shown us how wrong that was.

I see a great difference between the Kaladin/Lirin and the Adolin/Dalinar relationship. 

Adolin and Dalinar have a similar personality type which makes them prompt to react with emotions as opposed to with thoughts. If Dalinar has managed to completely quell this side of him, Adolin has not even begun to understand he is behaving that way. 

As for changes, Kaladin has always been easy to adapt and drastic changes did not put him in a state of nervousness nor stress. We see Adolin get nervous each time he feels things are about to change. Their reactions to change widely differ and I do not think it has to do with Kaladin having lived more changes. Some people just value stability and routine more than others. I believe Adolin to be one of such.